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	<title>Comments on: T-Mobile would rather let you die than help you</title>
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	<link>http://www.raoulpop.com/2008/t-mobile-would-rather-let-you-die-than-help-you/</link>
	<description>Selected thoughts and images</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: keith</title>
		<link>http://www.raoulpop.com/2008/t-mobile-would-rather-let-you-die-than-help-you/comment-page-1/#comment-145444</link>
		<dc:creator>keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raoulpop.com/?p=3255#comment-145444</guid>
		<description>Glad that I could be of service, Raoul.  And, again, I hope that all remains well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad that I could be of service, Raoul.  And, again, I hope that all remains well.</p>
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		<title>By: fredricktoo</title>
		<link>http://www.raoulpop.com/2008/t-mobile-would-rather-let-you-die-than-help-you/comment-page-1/#comment-145435</link>
		<dc:creator>fredricktoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raoulpop.com/?p=3255#comment-145435</guid>
		<description>I just did a google search for private detectives in your Mom's town.
There seem to be a lot in the area.

Do you think they might be able to offer any insight on how to resolve this before Friday?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just did a google search for private detectives in your Mom&#8217;s town.<br />
There seem to be a lot in the area.</p>
<p>Do you think they might be able to offer any insight on how to resolve this before Friday?</p>
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		<title>By: Raoul</title>
		<link>http://www.raoulpop.com/2008/t-mobile-would-rather-let-you-die-than-help-you/comment-page-1/#comment-145419</link>
		<dc:creator>Raoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raoulpop.com/?p=3255#comment-145419</guid>
		<description>Keith, that's the most sensible advice I've received so far, thanks! I'll forward your comment to my mother right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith, that&#8217;s the most sensible advice I&#8217;ve received so far, thanks! I&#8217;ll forward your comment to my mother right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Dawson</title>
		<link>http://www.raoulpop.com/2008/t-mobile-would-rather-let-you-die-than-help-you/comment-page-1/#comment-145418</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Dawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raoulpop.com/?p=3255#comment-145418</guid>
		<description>Years ago I'd received death threats as well, very similar sounding situation.  Filed with the police, set up a trap on my phone (to record incoming numbers of future calls, this is in the days prior  to caller-id) and of course, nothing happened on the expected date.

But really, this seems to be a breakdown on the police side more than the T-Mobile side.  T-Mobile is doing their part to protect themselves, as well as their customers by not releasing privileged information to anyone who calls up with an interesting story and asks for it.  We know your story about the death threat is true... but how would they know that?

Their request is simple, they need a court order... police get court orders every day as a part of their normal investigations.  Why should this case be any different for them? 

A court order gives T-Mobile the document they need that this is a true legal request and the will work in cooperation with law enforcement.

For example... what if the person who made the death threat called up T-Mobile, told them a story that your mom threatened them, and that they wanted her home address so they could give it to the police.  What if T-Mobile turned over that information to them without a court order?  Not good... obviously.  No difference here... just work with the police and make them make it happen.

Best of luck with it, I'd just keep pushing the police with the question, "How do I get a court order?" and request their protection on Friday all day.

--Dan Dawson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Years ago I&#8217;d received death threats as well, very similar sounding situation.  Filed with the police, set up a trap on my phone (to record incoming numbers of future calls, this is in the days prior  to caller-id) and of course, nothing happened on the expected date.</p>
<p>But really, this seems to be a breakdown on the police side more than the T-Mobile side.  T-Mobile is doing their part to protect themselves, as well as their customers by not releasing privileged information to anyone who calls up with an interesting story and asks for it.  We know your story about the death threat is true&#8230; but how would they know that?</p>
<p>Their request is simple, they need a court order&#8230; police get court orders every day as a part of their normal investigations.  Why should this case be any different for them? </p>
<p>A court order gives T-Mobile the document they need that this is a true legal request and the will work in cooperation with law enforcement.</p>
<p>For example&#8230; what if the person who made the death threat called up T-Mobile, told them a story that your mom threatened them, and that they wanted her home address so they could give it to the police.  What if T-Mobile turned over that information to them without a court order?  Not good&#8230; obviously.  No difference here&#8230; just work with the police and make them make it happen.</p>
<p>Best of luck with it, I&#8217;d just keep pushing the police with the question, &#8220;How do I get a court order?&#8221; and request their protection on Friday all day.</p>
<p>&#8211;Dan Dawson</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.raoulpop.com/2008/t-mobile-would-rather-let-you-die-than-help-you/comment-page-1/#comment-145417</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raoulpop.com/?p=3255#comment-145417</guid>
		<description>First things first: I sincerely hope that that the call was a mistake or hoax, and that no harm comes to your family.  

Now, having worked in this particular field for some time, I might offer a few nuggets:

- It is indeed the responsibility of the police to obtain a warrant.  Given a warrant, T-Mobile will immediately provide the information that the police want and need.   

- In order for the police the obtain a warrant, your mother would need to file a formal complaint (which can be done in minutes, over the phone if need be).

- Assuming that your mother has a complaint number, she should pressure the police to follow through and ensure that a warrant is obtained and that the information they need is handed over in a timely fashion.

- Your mother should not need to hire a lawyer.  

T-Mobile has a legal responsibility to their customers and, ludicrous as it seems, they're probably doing the right thing.  

SCENARIO: You call to sell me magazines.  I call T-Mobile unauthenticated (they have no way of concretely identifying callers are law enforcement--a court order, on the other hand, can be authenticated), tell them I'm the police, and obtain your address.  I fill your car with old magazines and set it on fire.

This type of scenario presents a problem for both the provider (T-Mobile) and the customer (you).  And if the provider's disclosure resulted in your car being burned, your house being broken into, or you being assaulted, you'd likely take a different tone on the matter.

When you're on the receiving end of something like this, emotions run high.  Just keep in mind that the police are there to protect you, and that you are within your rights to immediately escalate your issue within the department if you're not being served.

Again, hope that all is well now and in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First things first: I sincerely hope that that the call was a mistake or hoax, and that no harm comes to your family.  </p>
<p>Now, having worked in this particular field for some time, I might offer a few nuggets:</p>
<p>- It is indeed the responsibility of the police to obtain a warrant.  Given a warrant, T-Mobile will immediately provide the information that the police want and need.   </p>
<p>- In order for the police the obtain a warrant, your mother would need to file a formal complaint (which can be done in minutes, over the phone if need be).</p>
<p>- Assuming that your mother has a complaint number, she should pressure the police to follow through and ensure that a warrant is obtained and that the information they need is handed over in a timely fashion.</p>
<p>- Your mother should not need to hire a lawyer.  </p>
<p>T-Mobile has a legal responsibility to their customers and, ludicrous as it seems, they&#8217;re probably doing the right thing.  </p>
<p>SCENARIO: You call to sell me magazines.  I call T-Mobile unauthenticated (they have no way of concretely identifying callers are law enforcement&#8211;a court order, on the other hand, can be authenticated), tell them I&#8217;m the police, and obtain your address.  I fill your car with old magazines and set it on fire.</p>
<p>This type of scenario presents a problem for both the provider (T-Mobile) and the customer (you).  And if the provider&#8217;s disclosure resulted in your car being burned, your house being broken into, or you being assaulted, you&#8217;d likely take a different tone on the matter.</p>
<p>When you&#8217;re on the receiving end of something like this, emotions run high.  Just keep in mind that the police are there to protect you, and that you are within your rights to immediately escalate your issue within the department if you&#8217;re not being served.</p>
<p>Again, hope that all is well now and in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: cmiper</title>
		<link>http://www.raoulpop.com/2008/t-mobile-would-rather-let-you-die-than-help-you/comment-page-1/#comment-145413</link>
		<dc:creator>cmiper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raoulpop.com/?p=3255#comment-145413</guid>
		<description>Having family members who were robbed and had phones stolen, I know they went through the same thing, but it went further.  The people who stole the phones were using the phone, verified by the phone company when they called to report the theft.  They asked the phone company (VZ) if they could have access to the numbers that were being called, from THEIR phone, on THEIR contract, and VZ told them the same thing..."not without a court order".  There is a fine line between "right to privacy" and "common sense" when it comes to laws and rules like this, and apparently, the phone co's don't have any exceptions to their rules, even when one is warranted.  They follow the plan that their attorneys set in stone for them, the CYA plan.  Anything outside of that doesn't matter to them.

Hopefully this will turn out to be nothing, and a dialing error by the jerk that placed the call in the first place.  It still doesn't excuse his actions, nor T-Mobile's lack of support in the situation.  If she didn't already, I would consider visiting the Police station and speaking with someone who might be a bit more knowledgeable in the process and could help out (a detective perhaps?).  Sometimes the right person with the right information might be able to get a bit further in cases like this.

Either way, good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having family members who were robbed and had phones stolen, I know they went through the same thing, but it went further.  The people who stole the phones were using the phone, verified by the phone company when they called to report the theft.  They asked the phone company (VZ) if they could have access to the numbers that were being called, from THEIR phone, on THEIR contract, and VZ told them the same thing&#8230;&#8221;not without a court order&#8221;.  There is a fine line between &#8220;right to privacy&#8221; and &#8220;common sense&#8221; when it comes to laws and rules like this, and apparently, the phone co&#8217;s don&#8217;t have any exceptions to their rules, even when one is warranted.  They follow the plan that their attorneys set in stone for them, the CYA plan.  Anything outside of that doesn&#8217;t matter to them.</p>
<p>Hopefully this will turn out to be nothing, and a dialing error by the jerk that placed the call in the first place.  It still doesn&#8217;t excuse his actions, nor T-Mobile&#8217;s lack of support in the situation.  If she didn&#8217;t already, I would consider visiting the Police station and speaking with someone who might be a bit more knowledgeable in the process and could help out (a detective perhaps?).  Sometimes the right person with the right information might be able to get a bit further in cases like this.</p>
<p>Either way, good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: Raoul</title>
		<link>http://www.raoulpop.com/2008/t-mobile-would-rather-let-you-die-than-help-you/comment-page-1/#comment-145412</link>
		<dc:creator>Raoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raoulpop.com/?p=3255#comment-145412</guid>
		<description>Cody, not sure what other proof you'd need. Perhaps you'd like to see crime scene photos after Friday night??? Unbelievable...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cody, not sure what other proof you&#8217;d need. Perhaps you&#8217;d like to see crime scene photos after Friday night??? Unbelievable&#8230;</p>
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